I Think the Economy is Getting Even Worse

[lordsmurf]

I don't know about you guys, but I've seen my business slow to a trickle in the past month, and I literally sit here almost completely project-free for a couple weeks now (which is no good, it means I have no income and have to suck off meager savings).

Today, I saw an article in USA TODAY that said The Incredibles DVD release sold less than anticipated. My thoughts were "well, no crap, who has money to get it?"

But for some odd reason, nobody has the courage to outright say "the economy suck". They all dance around it and point limp fingers at something else.

[onlyemokid]

Heck, I'll say it.. and scream it to people too.... because It really does, when money is giong in all the wrong directions... we need some guidence.. or well, some do..

[markatisu]

I have been saying that for some time, almost twice a month you see big headlines in the Des Moines Register that say Unemployment in Iowa up again 10%, most since pre 1990's. Its in the other papers too but relegated to BACK page (Washington Post, Chicago Tribue, Wall Street Journal), page 11-14 because of course Brooke Shields wrote a letter about Tom Cruise and Paris Hilton has a sex video is all over the front page and is MUCH more important

Another thing that makes me laugh "Episode III and Batman cannot bring the box office out of its slump" well NO **** SHERLOCK, when people dont have $4-11 (yes $11 in some cities) to see a movie the box office is most certainly going to fall but what I do I read in every article "It is due to the rampant piracy", yeah thats it a bunch of computer dorks are the reason people choose not to pay $4-11 a ticket, its just stupid to think we just plain dont have the money

I have been working full time since early 1994 and in over 10 years the time frame from 2003-2005 has been the worst, almost 3 out of every 5 people I know is unemployed and cannot even score a job at McDonalds or Walmart even though the signs say "Now Hiring All Shifts"

But I guess our priorities lie with spending billions attacking internet piracy and people's sexual lifestyles, thats why the economy is not good

[DAJIZZARIZZA]

EVERSINCE BUSH TOOK OFFICE IT SUCKED ,.. NO NEWS FOR ME ..
BUSH -ECONOMY ... BOTH SUCK DONKEY DILL

[battle7]

they say that unemployment rate is going down, but that's only because peoples unemployment benefits are runing out and the numbers aren't there to physically go by anymore, that and the fact people are having to take $7, 8, and 9 dollar an hour jobs to replace jobs where they may have made double digit money on the hour, I know alot of plants here are shutting down and or are moving to mexico. That might help the business turn a more marginal profit but what does it do for the american economy, when I say american economy, I mean the people in america who have little or no money to spend because of such insane manufacturing/business tactics, ie. it helps the business's, hurts the american people in the longrun.

[wheeljack1978]

With billions of our hard earned dollars going overseas to iraq and africa it is no wonder why our economy is sagging. Years ago when the economy had a slump like this the govt would give us a boost with a tax cut or extra spending now so much money is going overseas. We can't even get gas for under $3 a gallon here in New York! Always remember - " Tough times don't last Tough people do ... "

[jpklcapp]

Wow I can see that I am not going to be popular on this thread.

I agree with you Mark - money spent on internet piracy is a waste - but then again so is the money spent on the drug war. Money spent in Iraq is not as easily written off - we do have an interest in that region for the oil if nothing else. I have to disagree with you

DAJ - Clinton was a lame *** as a president but that doesn;t mean he could control the economy any more than Bush is responsable for this economy - the stock market went into the tank in Clintons last year and noone has recovered from that except google.

Gasoline is supply and demand - People in the US think it is 1969 and the big burly freaking SUV is as bad on gas as the pre-gas shortage road boats were. The average MPG per vehicle has been going steadily down as the american public gobbles up hummers and durangos. I dont mean vehicle are less efficient I mean that more poor MPG vehicles are on the road meaning more gas is consumed annually for the same driving. American car companies are in a fog and going to get caught with thier pants down as well as drivers just like the 70s. When we consume more gas the price goes UP. That is just basic economics.

Bush doesn't suck - Saddam sucked and gas prices would not be any lower if he were still there.

The economy is not bad - disposable income is being consumed by higher gas prices (as a result of our choices as a populous), bigger car payments and bigger house payments- the fed is doing a great job stimulating growth and limiting inflation by altering the interest rates - houses have never sold faster or for more money than they have for the last year in Florida. They have doubled in 24 months and people cannot buy them fast enough. PEOPLE ARE DIGGIN THIER OWN FINANCIAL GRAVES WITH ADJUSTABLE MORTGAGES BUT THAT IS ANOTHER ISSUE.

Money has never been cheaper to borrow or easier to repay than it is right now. You simply must see that gas prices have been artificially LOW in the US since the 50's - that cannot last forever and we are hastening the problem with poor choices. Gas is double what we pay abroad.

Times are changing and not going to go back to the way they were - that is obvious - Kerry could not have done better - In fact he would have rolled back the tax breaks, hiked taxes and proceeded with the democratic parties TAX AND SPEND government. This nation does not need more pressure on the economy with bloated welfare, government administered medical insurance nationally or any other nonsense entitlement that the dems have proposed or given us.

Get off the back of the economy and it will recover in time - People need to quit pissing away money, buy an ECHO that gets 43mpg and keep our money to spend our way - that is the way to go.

[lordsmurf]

Gas price is such a minor part of the economy you could feel free to totally overlook it if you wanted. The reason those prices are up is "political unrest". Bush WAS the one that caused it, although it could have been anybody, that is very much true.

The idea that Democrats "tax and spend" is a ridiculous untrue myth, the majority of spending has been pork-barrel conservative spending for years now. The current tax cuts mostly benefit upper class and business. Rolling back those tax cuts needs to be done, and it needs to be re-cut in a more effective method.

Houses and cars are good investments when the interest rates are fixed and down, you'd be a fool or unlucky to not be able to take advantage of that. I fall in the unlucky on this one, it would be nice to buy that new truck or put down on my own home. I can only look on, a spectator to missed opportunity.

People are not spending much right now, same for companies. They're not hiring white collar labor. When you see "unemployment down" info, that's a combination of people falling off unemployment benefits, as well as an increase in fork lift operators and ditch diggers.

These issues have existed for years now (since 2001, for the most part), and there is no foreseeable solution to this. For every slight uphill we still get a slight downhill. There are some solutions to these things, but for as long as our government reps fights over who has the best religious beliefs (or lack thereof), more important matters will be ignored it seems.

[wheezer210]

" Gas price is such a minor part of the economy you could feel free to totally overlook it if you wanted."

Ummm...sorry but no...it is a MAJOR part of the economy, see when gas prices are up EVERYTHING goes up. Corporations, small mom and pop stores both pass the cost onto the consumer.

Let's not forget, we are not the ONLY country in the world with cars on the road...one of the biggest users of gas is China...with thier population and more people driving they are gobbling up oil also.

Lets not also forget that there are VERY few refineries in the US...everyone wants more fuel and cheaper prices, but no one wants a nasty refinery in thier back yard.

As far as SUVs go yes they use more fuel than the VW bus, BUT they are MUCH more fuel efficient than MANY pieces of sh*t I see on the road. So if you know someone with a "classic car" (i.e. a 1970 chevelle) that they drive to work on a daily basis ask them to compare fuel economy with someone who has a new Chevy Blazer. How fuel efficient do you think all those 18 wheelers are on the road that are delivering your food to your local store are?

Any of you live in a big to moderate city? Evaluate the cabs in your area and let us know how fuel efficient you think they are.

"The current tax cuts mostly benefit upper class and business."

Not true, I make a moderate income and saw a nice jump in the amount of my take home pay.

Let's not forget how the libs felt unfair it was that those that paid NO TAXES did not get a "rebate" check in 2001.
So to be fair and look like the good guys and to help buy votes, they pushed and pushed until EVERYONE got a tax rebate check, just another example of the liberal socialism mindset.

"Houses and cars are good investments"

Uh, no...houses yes...cars no...see a new car depreciates as soon as the front tires hit the pavement on the road so no the don't hold value and you are incorrect.

Now, not that your advice and expiereince is not welcme LS..how much do you think you would have to make investments if you total up all the money you have spent on this hobby? (equipment, computer hardware) Considering the price of all your equipment do you think you would have been able to wisely invest your money so that it would work for you? Or come up with a down payment on a small starter home? Just food for thought.

Before people point their fingers, they need to take a look closer to home and see what THEY themselves have done or not done to benefit themselves.

[MagnificentMarcus]

I appreciate and have some popocurante' for the posts on this thread. I doubt anyone has made as many mistakes or had setbacks in their career or careers as I have. I just returned from my visiting family in Idaho and was reminded how tough my parents had it when I was long. My parents were married when they were 18 & 17 years old and had four children within five years. Think about- four children to raise and you are 23 years old- I can't imagine how my father and mother managed. When you look at other countries and their standard of living it really does put thing in perspective. I had a client who came over here from Laos twenty years ago. He told me that there were five children in his family and they lived in a bamboo hut.

Regarding our economy many of you have heard me say-ENERGY- should be our biggest concern. Regardless of our political leanings the lack of the above in our daily lives would severly affect each and every one of us profoundly. We do have alternatives but neither our politicians both Democratic or Republican seem to be taking us in the right direction.For example, goggle a company that I have been following for five years-Changing World Technologies. They could produce high grade oil for approximately $15 a barrell from our waste products (agricultural, sewage, etc) and frankly their process could clean up our environment at the same time. If we could just do this it would create a economic boon in the U.S. by keeping our jobs and money here. Alas, they can't even get the tax credit for investment that ethonalis getting. It's ridiculous. Please check out there website.

Frankly, when it comes to politics here is my view point.
The democrats want to make us all property of the state
The republicans want to make us slaves to the corporations. I really don't see much of a difference.

[MagnificentMarcus]

Please check this website out-http://www.changingworldtech.com/. We need to kick our politicians in the pants (really hard) and get the U.S. started in some new directions.

By the way, the U.S. produces enough agricultural waste alone to produce over 4.5 billion barrels of high grade oil. When I say high grade-I mean low sulphur content which is a problem now days.

[lordsmurf]

Everybody needs a car, unless you're in some mega-city with a transit system. I'm not. A car is a good investment, or rather a good "purchase" when the interest rates are 0.x%, which is where many of them still are (some have even been 0.0% in the recent past). I bought my last car at 2.9% APR, and thought that was a great deal. At the time, 7 years ago, it was. But right now, rates will only go up, there is no way to go lower unless they pay you interest! Again, like I said, you'd be a fool or unlucky to not buy a new car right now. They are practically giving them away.

Economic sectors span technology, services, agriculture, currencies ... it's a big market. Oil (or rather "energy") is only a small part to a larger picture. While it can affect the market, it does not effect the market.

[debwalsh]

We contribute to the energy crisis with our dependence on plastics - magnetic tape, tape shells, shiny discs, mailers, etc., so even if you don't drive, you're still a consumer of petroleum products. I lived 18 years without a car when I was in Boston (best transit system in the country, and cheapest), but I still used plastics. I recycle or reuse as much as I can, but there's still waste.

Why stop at an ECHO? I drive a Prius. It's rated for 66 mpg city by the EPA. Which is very hard to achieve in real life, and they admit their testing (for all cars) is faulty. In practical use, my personal best is 50 mpg, since I have a very short commute (usually under 10 minutes, but just too far to walk) and it's a lot of stop and go with local stop signs and school crossings.

HP just announced a layoff of 10,000 people. I'm surrounded by lawyers who are finding it hard to get permanent jobs - they're working contract work and happy to get it. I can't even get an interview in the IT realm, after 15 years in the industry, multiple certifications, and a crapload of experience. There are so many qualified candidates for so few jobs, HR folks can look for very specific skill sets and not have to use their imaginations to see the potential in people who don't have just what they're looking for.

Foreclosures are up in my area. People can't afford to keep the houses they've purchased with those wonderful rates.

The empirical evidence that surrounds me convinces me the economy is not improving sufficiently or steadily enough to be considered an upward trend of any note. Blips maybe, but not true improvement.

[battle7]

that's probably why a lot of European countries as well as Japan don't believe too much in Urban sprawl. No need for as much cars.

[tobal2]

We have relatively low unemployment in my area (sub 5% on average) of South Carolina, but I'm not convinced that most of the growth isn't in the service industry (i.e. typically part time, no benefits).

I was involved solely in IT since 1999 after nearly 7 years in management, but after two lengthy layoffs from different companies since 2002 I've had to accept the fact that those jobs just aren't there for me anymore.... I don't fit the typical "mold" for an IT professional in this particular region of the country - Middle Eastern/Asian origin, educated outside the US and able to be brought in on contracts through visa programs. The few companies that do pay me any attention are usually larger corporations looking for local, short-term contract labor that has years of experience but is desperate enough to work 3rd shift for $12/hr after making up to $30/hr just a few years ago for 1st shift positions. It's been so bad in some jobs that they almost need translators so the IT people can even talk to the customers... so I'm back in corporate management again.


Real estate is BOOMING around here, but it's primarily thanks to the ultra cheap rates offered through ARM's and even interest only loans. With these rates, it's not so hard to figure out how an assistant manager in a fast food restaurant can afford a $150,000+ house! The really fun part will be watching what happens when all of these loans start coming due.
One guy in my office (a commission only sales rep who moved here from Florida with NO sales experience and brand new to the company) just qualified for a $100,000+ mortgage based simply on a phone conversation between the lender and myself!!!

[rmehta2]

Ron, Brother you read my mind. I have a degree in Computer Engineering and have taken some Networking/IT classes and did get some Certifications out the way. I have all the credentials but not enough experience. Back when i graduated I was really optimistic about the computer industry. Boy did I graduate at the wrong time. I still send out like 20-25 resumes a day and hardly get a response anymore. I am also Indian Ron...hahahaha. Outsourcing killed the IT field. Anybody looking for IT recruits has to have at least 3-5 years experience and like 10 certifications and then if they are lucky they will get an interview. I am at the point right now where i am looking for any ****ing job right now.

As for the economy, it really sucks monkey balls right now...The US Currency doesn't mean crap anymore outside the US. I went to India back in 1997 and the Rupee (Indian dollar) was worth 38 US dollars. That is pretty crappy at that time, but you look at it now it is worth $23 dollars.

Gas prices suck and there seems to be no let up for a price break. I think we can blame Bush for wasting our economy's money for wasted projects, i.e. Afghanistan and Iraq. Hell, i still don't know how he managed to win this election. But ever since 9/11 our economy has gone downhill.

I for one want the economy to get back on track. But it won't until this President and his goons are out of the White House.

Raman

[tobal2]

Raman,

The key difference between you and the people I've met that are brought into this area is that you already live in the US... there seems to be an X factor associated with bringing on foreign workers through visa programs in this area. One of the last jobs I had in IT was as a manager, and they were insistent that I interview and hire people they'd located for visas through a placement firm in New York. For every 2-3 qualified people I'd find that were local residents (black, white, red, yellow, or otherwise), I'd end up interviewing several times that number who were here simply to get a job in the US. They had no measurable social skills and spoke very little English.

It became very discouraging to be forced to manage out people I'd basically started our department with so we could squeeze more contractors in there. And when I'd finished their dirty work, I was just about the last one to go.

While it's not as bad as it once was since the tech booms are over, I still know some people in IT fields that continue to struggle competing with the imported contract consultants...

One local university has a "world class" engineering program, yet the graduates have a tough time finding jobs here because so many engineers are brought in from Germany and Fr for the auto manufacturers and their support companies that located in South Carolina... but they don't hesitate to hire American workers for the labor positions

[jpklcapp]

LS - cars are not an investment - they are a costly part of life and needed but in EVERY case it is cheaper to keep an old car than to buy a new one (from an internal report commissioned and then surpressed by FORD in 1997- I saw a copy because I have / had a friend who owns the local Ford dealership). It simply feels better to drive a new car - it is not a better economic position to take than to drive your old car and put money into it. Even if your engine blows every year it is about the same as making payments and that is sure to never happen unless you own a ****ing KIA.

People would even argue that a home is not an investment - myself included - prices are very high right now and people are tying big FAT ANCHORS around thier necks buying houses that are TOO BIG TOO EXPENSIVE and wastefull in ARMs - foolish. Buying a shiny new Durango, Expedition, F350, Trailblazer or any number of other SUVs - foolish

People cannot afford the gas or insurance on thier new cars and cannot afford to heat or cool the massive homes they are buying - foolish.

I love the PRIUS - would own one if they were not so dang expensive - compared to the ECHO you need to save about 10K in gas and with the small difference in MPG the Prius is a great car but not a better value currently - when they come down in price or at least start selling at sticker price without an 8 month wait they will be better but at least you made a wise and educated choice when you bought it - my sister in law just bought a new suburban - what an *** rape that things is going to turn out to be for her - she traded in a camry too - foolish!

While I am ranting ..... Storage spaces - REALLY dang FOOLISH - if you have too much stuff to keep in your house then you HAVE TOO MUCH STUFF - keeping unused stuff is the same as wasting it - sell it, donate it, use it - do something besides piss away money to keep it in a box owned by someone else - that it rediculous - people abroad live in HOMES smaller than our storage units! - FOOLISH FOOLISH FOOLISH - a relative of mine is one of the long time storage facility renters - I cannot convince him to stop spending that $120 but he still looks to me for $$ when he gets caught short.

We have done this to ourselfs - we overspend, we support failing government programs and failing schools and failing people - we deserve this economy as a nation.

Finally the DEMS are tax and spend all the way - the Republicans are not only for the businesses and even if they are it makes everything better nationaly when business is growing - for everyone.

Want to see how seriously astray the dems go - check out Mona Charen "Do-Gooders" all about how the democrats pour or money, time and focus down the pooper and hurt the people that they are trying to help and us at the same time. Just bad for everyone when you let the democrats take the $$ to throw around. Spending is good for the economy when it will cause reflex growth but weak "entitlement" programs are the best ways to pitch money down the drain.

People need to take PERSONAL RESPONSABILITY - if you dont like where you are move, if you dont like what you are change, if you dont like the government vote and effect it, if that doesn't work run for office and change it yourself - if you don't think it is worth the time to take part in the process then step aside.

Rant over

[jpklcapp]

Wow I got carried away but the ideas are all valid if a little long winded

[lordsmurf]

"Personal responsibility" is a major cop-out because a great many things are outside our individual control. That rates up their with "time management", a phrase often uttered by people that are giving you too much to do in too short a time. I'm not a fan of cute little phrases like that, I find them snide and condescending.

It's also not cheaper to buy a used car, car repairs can easily out-cost a monthly payment for something new and 100% fully operational. I've heard that many times, but I've watched so many friends and family members drop loads of cash into car repairs while I paid a low and steady monthly payment that was over after 4 years. A transmission or water pump or alternator can often run several hundred, and on old cars, when you lose one, you tend to lose a whole bunch of things right in a row. Not to mention older vehicles get lousy mileage as the engine ages, and puff out too much pollution.