Does Anybody Else Find This Offensive

[ogopogo2000]

Don't open this link if you are at work. You might get some funny looks.

http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/aug07/HFH13-.jpg

I generally like this comic but as a woman, this cover just bothers me. It brings to mind the creepy tentacle rape scenario common in anime. Why is this the cover to a comic that is aimed people 9 years old and up?

I'm not advocating censorship but I wish Marvel would just use a little more common sense. Between the looks on the faces of the women, the menacing tentacles, the state of undress, and the liquid resembling sperm dripping from one of the tentacles on the chest of a character who is supposed to be a rape survivor, this is a little too over the top for me. Any one of these things on their own (or maybe even a few together) probably would not make me bat an eye but the combo makes me wanna hurl.

I'm never written a letter to a company before but I am seriously considering it. I realize that this cover is probably marketed toward guys and not kids but do guys actually look at that and think it is sexy?

And should it make any difference that it was drawn by a woman?

[MagnificentMarcus]

A little late to complain if I may say so myself. They have been drawing these images since I was 10 years old. I'm appraching 50 in a couple of years.

[ogopogo2000]

Seriously? I admit that I've only been reading comics for the last five years (I'm only 26 years old so I have not been around extremely long) but I've never seen anything like this on the shelves of my local comic store aside from possibly the manga or the comics aimed at mature readers. I've certainly never seen anything like this rated T+. But if you regularly see stuff combining these elements in your local comic store than I will certainly defer to your experience.

Is it too late to complain? Maybe... but maybe not as the cover does not come out until August. But nothing will ever change if people don't complain. There are already people who have voiced objections to this particular cover including some in the comic industry like Gail Simone. Will adding my name to that list of people make a difference? Maybe not but maybe it will. Sometimes companies listen, sometimes they don't but I won't know unless I actually go ahead and complain. Maybe they will still release the cover but maybe they will make a compromise if enough people complain (for example, they could put out a variant cover in addition to this one).

[MagnificentMarcus]

You never know, go for it! By the way "(I'm only 26 years old so I have not been around extremely long)," I don't understand why you made that statement??? Do you realize that age 26+ would have been considered almost middle age less than 100 years ago. Has adolescence changed, I know I have a 22 year old stepson who finds in almost unimagable to have to go to work full-Time!

Neuroslicer and I get quite a kick from you babys.

[manthing]

women being bound in comics?
old stuff.
this has been common in comics for years.

do a google on wonder woman in bondage as an example.
Dr. William Moulton Marston's wonder woman is often cited as an early example of bondage entering popular culture.

sure the artwork of yesteryear looks "simple" compared to todays.
nevertheless, the theme has been there for years.

wasn't it this type of thinking that has banned a number of otherwise harmless cartoons?

and if you want to go down the road of censorship / not allowing certain types of material, where will you stop?

stop all those action films, like bond films. bond is often bound up.
if women being bound up is wrong, then it is also wrong for men.
and don't tell me bond films are rated 15 or 18 as i know a lot of younger children watch these films anyway.

what about all those "jiggle" tv shows like baywatch.
why are those okay for youngsters to watch?

what about "violent" computer games with "sexy" characters?

if 9 year olds are reading such material, then what in the world are their parents doing?
don't they have a responsibility to supervise their kids?

also comes down to the individual kid / person.
the vast majority of us who do read / watch this kind of stuff, never ever commit any violent crime.
nor grow up with any psychological problems.
at least i haven't!

ogopogo2000, i'm not having a go at you.
you have every right to express your opinions.
i'm just giving my point of view.

if you really cannot stand this material, by all means stop buying it, and if you have kids, supervise them so that they don't get it either.

but let the rest of us who can enjoy both the artwork and the story alone.

there are biggers issues around like poverty, nuclear weapons etc for you to get your teeth into.

[lordsmurf]

The big-boob art style in comics has been around since about 1991 now. Jim Lee's X-MEN art in 1993 really brought it mainstream in the mid 1990s. The X-MEN cartoon of the time borrowed the huge jugs in their Rogue and Storm designs.

[ogopogo2000]

Why did I make the statement about only being 26? Mainly b/c you stated that it was a little late to complain and I was demonstrating that I have not really been a fan for that long and having not seen anything terribly objectionable before now, had no wish to complain. How come the step-son can't imagine going to work full-time though? I just graduated university with my second bachelors degree and cannot wait to go to work full-time. I'm so excited to finally stop sucking money out of my poor mother. LOL.

Manthing, I'm understand that you are "not having a go at" me you and I respect your opinion. I also like a rather spirited debate. But perhaps I should clarify. I'm not advocating censorship of this image. If it makes you or anybody else happy then that is fantastic. I merely think that it is offensive and insulting to me as a woman.

It is not necessarily the bondage that I have a problem with. Consentual bondage is lovely if it makes both the binder and the bound happy.

"Jiggle" shows and big boobs I have no problem with. There is nothing remotely offensive about the female breast. To say otherwise would be to perhaps have a problem with feminity iself. The only way that I would complain about a "jiggle" show is if the constant motion somehow gave me a seizure.

Violent videogames? No problem usually for me here either. They are not going to turn kids into serial killers with oozies.

Sexy Characters? No problem. There is nothing offensive about being sexy or finding another person sexy.


The objection I have is that there is a difference between a sexy cover and something that is blatantly degrading and insulting towards women. Why is it degrading? It is a combination of elements carefully put together that taken individually probably would not be degrading including:

1. Non-consentual bondage.
2. The fact that the picture gratuitously only focuses on the women. The male members are tied up too but the artist and company deliberately decided to only to have their arms shown.
3. The terrified looks on the faces of the women.
4. The tentacles removing the clothing of the females.
5. Liquid resembling ejaculate dripping all over the breast of someone who obviously doesn't want it there.
6. The fact that said liquid is dripping all over a character who was previously raped.

I repeat, it is not the individual elements that are offensive. It is the combination. Even simply changing their facial expressions would make the picture unoffensive to me. If they looked like they were having a great time, I wouldn't have any kind of problem.

Would I be writing a letter asking them to censor the cover? No. I would be writing a letter asking them to use more enlightened attitude towards depictions of women being victimized if they value money that I am willing to potentially spend with their company in the future. It is perfectly within their right to say, "you know what? Screw this chick and her money! We don't need her and we don't need fans like her to buy our product." The issue that I take is not with their right to put out an comic with this cover. This issue is that they want to. It is the attitude that I wish to change - not the right.

[manthing]

ogopogo2000, i wish you luck with your stand if you choose to make it.

let me just point something out.

mainstream comics, from marvel, dc, dark horse et al, only reaches a global audience of what, about 1 million?

and that particular title, possibly under 50,000?
of which some fanboys will buy multiple copies, making the actual figure much lower.

so is it really worth all the hot air this is generating?

in many ways i do agree with your view about female characters being used in this way.

however i think there is bigger fish to fry.

jiggle tv - you did have "the Hoff" on baywatch to make up for the girls!!!

[Tranzor]

The problem is that most of the artists are creepy perverts anyway who live out some of their fantasies via their artwork. You can usually tell when you see a drawing from what point of view the artist is trying to show. Its quite clear that the said cover you have a problem with is very much so going down the exploitive route. It could have been "classed" up a bit, but then again they need to sell comics.

Sadly

[MagnificentMarcus]

LS, they have been doing this type of art style since the mid 70s, not the 90s. I remember a guy in my dorm who had his room covered with the stuff. I do have to agree with manthing that you should be going after shows like Baywatch and the slash, and gash horror films. I heard the new thing for the younger generation is horrorporn.

Wow, things have changed. I almost got thrown out of the house when I was 17 when my mother found a Penthouse that I had thown away. Unfortunately, my stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid. younger brother had found it and got caught with it then blamed me. I still would like to kick his --s over that!

[cp32]

I like leather :P

[lordsmurf]

The slick paper and gradient tone artwork done today started in the 90s. The 70s-80s had less depth, because it was a different kind of print. I agree the anatomical aspects were moving that way long before the 90s, but it flourished with Image, Dark Horse, Marvel and others at the time.

[cp32]

Boris Vallejo, Julie bell, R. Bakshi , Frazetta been using slight ( lol) nudity in women for ages. I personally love it.

I 'm female

A woman's body is a piece of art after all


Everyone as their own perspective how they view it.

A great piece of Illustration . Excellent work
.