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  #21  
  11-22-2016, 06:00 PM
 
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How many days in the media do you wait for Lordsmurf answers for the above 8 doubts?
  #22  
  11-22-2016, 07:13 PM
 
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  #23  
  11-28-2016, 05:00 AM
 
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1 I burned 4 Verbatim AZO DVD-R discs 16x ID: MCC03RG20 at 6x speed and tested Nero DiscSpeed ​​5> Read Test and the result was 4 discs 100% good I tested VERIFY from ImgBurn and in the errors found, I did not test the discs Jitter, PIE, PIF with my liteon drive iHAS122 F firmware EL06 I have not performed these tests is bad and the disks can die prematurely? In burning jitter, pie, pif are already high values? I stored the discs in dvds case black

2 blank discs (not burned) dvd-r 16x verbatim azo mcc 03rg20 under storage conditions as my storage condition constantly degrade and in the future 10 or more years will not be good for burning and long term storage?

3 you said that my storage conditions the disc will live well between 15-30 years, under conditions of temperature 25șC 50% RH the disc will live between 35-65 years? How did you conduct these surveys and concluded that the numbers provided by verbatim (60, 100 years) are marketing?
  #24  
  11-28-2016, 06:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opticalmediafan View Post
1 I burned 4 Verbatim AZO DVD-R discs 16x ID: MCC03RG20 at 6x speed and tested Nero DiscSpeed ​​5> Read Test and the result was 4 discs 100% good I tested VERIFY from ImgBurn and in the errors found, I did not test the discs Jitter, PIE, PIF with my liteon drive iHAS122 F firmware EL06 I have not performed these tests is bad and the disks can die prematurely? In burning jitter, pie, pif are already high values? I stored the discs in dvds case black
2 blank discs (not burned) dvd-r 16x verbatim azo mcc 03rg20 under storage conditions as my storage condition constantly degrade and in the future 10 or more years will not be good for burning and long term storage?
3 you said that my storage conditions the disc will live well between 15-30 years, under conditions of temperature 25șC 50% RH the disc will live between 35-65 years? How did you conduct these surveys and concluded that the numbers provided by verbatim (60, 100 years) are marketing?
3 great questions.

ImgBurn "verify" is known to be buggy, therefore useless. I never use it. I prefer to test in other ways -- scan disc, manual verification, and the jitter/PIE/PIF/PO scans.

Any disc can die. Understand that we're talking in statistics here, not absolutes. This is what I've done for years. For example, a Verbatim has a 95%+ success rate. That means up to 5 discs from a 100-disc spindle could be bad. That's the initial burn, not including latter errors. You have statistical outliers (which I also take into account for rankings), such as a spindle that is 100% good or only 90% or less good.

If you're using Verbatim or Taiyo Yuden, stats are on your side, in terms of getting a good disc. But that small % of bad discs is still there, and it's your job to find them via testing. You test immediately for burn failures, and later for degradation. Most people don't test at all, some only at initial stages. You're willingness to test periodically means that you're less likely to lose data.

Heat and humidity accelerate aging. So after 10-15 years, your discs may quickly nosedive. But by that time, we may have other technology for storage. For example, SSD cells are getting better. But in 10-15 years, we have a tech that nobody (outside of engineers in a lab) has yet imagined. If you were to ask somebody in 2001 what storage medium we'd be using in 2016, they'd give some screwy and wrong answers!

I've been studying optical media for many years now. There's many factors that lead to the personalized advice I've given you. Same for pointing out the bogus "marketing" nature of 60-100 years. (As an example, most of the century-long estimates gloss over bonding, and the study focused too much on dye degradation. But a disc is more than just dye. And no, I'm not explaining more. Sorry. That's getting too detailed for my time.)

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  #25  
  11-28-2016, 06:34 AM
 
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1 Nero DiscSpeed ​​5> ScanDisc> read test is a good test to see if the disk and the burn was good or bad? I did this test on 4 dvd-r verbatim azo mcc 03rg20 and it's 100% good but that's an indication that jitter pie, pif are good and I do not need to test jitter, pie, pif today with the liteon drive iHAS122 F Firmware EL06?

2 before you said that my discs verbatim azo dvd-r 16 mcc 03rg20 has an expectation of 15-30 years now you say 10-15 years, what's the truth? Under my conditions morning 30-31șC, afternoon 32-36șC, night 32șC humidity RH 40-56% (without rain), rain stacion rh high temp low

3 dvd + r double layer 8.5GB verbatim is good or bad for long term storage?

4 The useful life of a dvd-r disc 16x is counted from the manufacturing of it or the useful life of it is counted from the burning?
  #26  
  11-28-2016, 06:48 AM
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Please stop hitting quote. Hit reply. Only use quote when you need to quote specific sections, not the whole message.

Scandisc first, shows severe errors first. The PIE/jitter/etc must be interpreted, though they will halt on severe errors as well.

The 10-15 was from (apparently faulty!) memory. The earlier 15-30 was correct. Thanks for pointing out the discrepancy. Disregard 10-15.

DVD+R DL is not good for long-term storage. It's not much better than BD-R, which is also not archival. So, given the choice of DVD+R DL and BD-R, I'd go for BD-R due tpo extra space. Personally, I'd rather use HDD if going for less archival means of backup.

Again, backup policy is about multiple backups on multiple formats in multiple locations.

Shelf life is started from manufacturing date. Like bread or milk.

Sorry, no more time for questions today.
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  #27  
  11-28-2016, 06:55 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Please stop hitting quote. Hit reply. Only use quote when you need to quote specific sections, not the whole message.

Scandisc first, shows severe errors first. The PIE/jitter/etc must be interpreted, though they will halt on severe errors as well.

The 10-15 was from (apparently faulty!) memory. The earlier 15-30 was correct. Thanks for pointing out the discrepancy. Disregard 10-15.

DVD+R DL is not good for long-term storage. It's not much better than BD-R, which is also not archival. So, given the choice of DVD+R DL and BD-R, I'd go for BD-R due tpo extra space. Personally, I'd rather use HDD if going for less archival means of backup.

Again, backup policy is about multiple backups on multiple formats in multiple locations.

Shelf life is started from manufacturing date. Like bread or milk.

Sorry, no more time for questions today.
1 if my disk has too much error pie, pif, jitter the scan in Nero DiscSpeed ​​5> scandisc> READ TEST shows these errors as burning and reading error? If it does not show errors and this 100% good jitter, pie, pif are with acceptable values?

2 I wanted to burn 8.5gb in data for long term storage and I thought of dvd + r dl verbatim 8.5gb but you said it is not good and I do not have bluray drive for burning, because dvd dl no is good for long term storage?

3 mdisc and usb flash drive are better than dvd-r for long term storage? They do not have anything organic

Last edited by opticalmediafan; 11-29-2016 at 06:41 AM.
  #28  
  12-02-2016, 04:13 PM
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  #29  
  12-02-2016, 04:18 PM
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opticalmediafan there are no real answers to your questions. We have now all gone over this with you.

points we've made that you've missed countless times

1. There is no legit 110% secure backup for your data. No matter what brand of dvd you use it isn't going to matter. if a dvd is gonna fail, it is going to fail period.

2. You have different conditions then everyone else. We can't replicate what your conditions are. YOU can figure it out by trail and error if you really want to.

3. Again there are no real answer for long term storage. As I said back on reply 1, using a combination is the only real way to back your stuff up and even that is decent at best. Nothing is meant to last forever

4. Please let this thread die, LS has answered everything he can for you along with countless others. Stop beating the dead horse. You've gotten your answers, that is as good as it is going to get.
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  #30  
  12-03-2016, 02:55 AM
 
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These statements I already knew and I knew

I want Lordsmurf to answer my 3 questions above
  #31  
  12-03-2016, 03:52 AM
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1. yes
2. no
3. no

@everybody: Remember to always keep this site friendly.
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  #32  
  12-03-2016, 04:10 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
1. yes
2. no
3. no

@everybody: Remember to always keep this site friendly.
1 did you see the photo of the nero disc speed read test? If nero discspeed 5 read test is 100% good this errors jitter, pie, pif errors can present high troubling values for long term storage or jitter, pie, pif are low values if read test 100% good? Read test of nero discspeed 5 takes into consideration jitter, pie, pif?

2 you said that dvd 8.5gb dl is bad for long term storage because it is bad for this purpose even being dvd verbatim dl?

3 Why are mdisc and usb flash drives not reliable for long term storage? They do not have anything organic
  #33  
  12-03-2016, 05:42 AM
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1. ScanDisc not PIF/PIE/jitter,
2. Bad.
3. Organic vs. inorganic only part of an arguments. Like me saying "It's green." Now you're wondering WTF is green? Exactly.
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  #34  
  12-03-2016, 05:50 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
1. ScanDisc not PIF/PIE/jitter,
2. Bad.
3. Organic vs. inorganic only part of an arguments. Like me saying "It's green." Now you're wondering WTF is green? Exactly.
1 A DVD-R disc with Nero DiscSpeed 5> ScanDis> Read Test with test 100% good can be a bad disk and not reliable burned disk because it does not show and does not interpret jitter, PIE, PIF errors during Scan?

2 Which media do you recommend for long-term storage of files larger than 4.7GB?

3 Mdisc is marketing and inferior to dvd-r verbatim azo?
  #35  
  12-03-2016, 06:19 AM
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1. No. PIE/PIF/jitter gives signs of discs condition. It's not binary. It shows details. Scandisc is binary, pass/fail. If scandisc is bad, it's too late to do anything about it. If PIE/PIF/jitter is faltering, but the disc isn't yet bad, there's time to salvage it.

2. Nothing optical. DVD+R DL and BD-R are both unreliable.

3. It's complicated. For you, yes, not better. Stick with Verbatim or Taiyo Yuden.
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  #36  
  12-03-2016, 06:28 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
1. No. PIE/PIF/jitter gives signs of discs condition. It's not binary. It shows details. Scandisc is binary, pass/fail. If scandisc is bad, it's too late to do anything about it. If PIE/PIF/jitter is faltering, but the disc isn't yet bad, there's time to salvage it.

2. Nothing optical. DVD+R DL and BD-R are both unreliable.

3. It's complicated. For you, yes, not better. Stick with Verbatim or Taiyo Yuden.
1 If PIE / PIF / Jitter is bad the scan read test of nero disc speed 5 will be 100% good green or the result of the read test of discspeed 5 will be poor 98%, 70%, 60% ...?

2 Can I use 2 4.7GB DVD-R discs to save these larger files? Is dvd-r 4.7gb reliable and safe for long term storage?

3 What is the degradation rate of a virgin (burned) dvd-r stored in pin in my condition after 10 or more years? Will not be a good disk to make new copies?
  #37  
  12-03-2016, 08:05 AM
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I get paid for work.
I have a hobby for fun.
At this point in time, your questions are neither.

I've entertained you for months now. This thread alone has gone on for two pages. At this time, I'm done. I can't be your personal encyclopedia for burning knowledge -- and for the succinct reason that I'm now repeating myself.

For best burning results:
1. Use Verbatim single-layer DVD-R or DVD+R
2. Test after burning for errors. ScanDisc shows pass/fail, more complex PIE/PIF/jitter can show nuances in disc/drive conditions. (It's a complex process, and results must be re-checked against multiple drives to eliminate the possibility of drive causing skewed results. Then all results interpreted.)
3. Re-test every few years minimum. Move faulty-disc data to a new storage media.
4. In 15-30 years, by the time your discs start to falter, other recording mediums will probably exist.
5. In 100 years, we'll probably all be dead, and not give a **** about blank DVD lifespans.

DVD is a perfect size for DVD-Video, photos, music, and documents. Because 4.38gb is small compared to huge drives, it can seem tedious. So only use it for really important data/video. Use larger disks for larger backups. Duplicate everything in triplicate.

/done
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  #38  
  12-03-2016, 09:46 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
I get paid for work.
I have a hobby for fun.
At this point in time, your questions are neither.

I've entertained you for months now. This thread alone has gone on for two pages. At this time, I'm done. I can't be your personal encyclopedia for burning knowledge -- and for the succinct reason that I'm now repeating myself.

For best burning results:
1. Use Verbatim single-layer DVD-R or DVD+R
2. Test after burning for errors. ScanDisc shows pass/fail, more complex PIE/PIF/jitter can show nuances in disc/drive conditions. (It's a complex process, and results must be re-checked against multiple drives to eliminate the possibility of drive causing skewed results. Then all results interpreted.)
3. Re-test every few years minimum. Move faulty-disc data to a new storage media.
4. In 15-30 years, by the time your discs start to falter, other recording mediums will probably exist.
5. In 100 years, we'll probably all be dead, and not give a **** about blank DVD lifespans.

DVD is a perfect size for DVD-Video, photos, music, and documents. Because 4.38gb is small compared to huge drives, it can seem tedious. So only use it for really important data/video. Use larger disks for larger backups. Duplicate everything in triplicate.

/done
I did everything that was recommended by you friend and thanks for the help.

1 I used DVD-R 16x Verbatim AZO (ID: MCC 03RG20) burned in 6x with ImgBurn in Liteon drive iHAS122 F firmware EL06

2 this error test after the burn you mentioned is the ScanDisc>Read Test of Nero DiscSpeed 5 or another? I tested read test nero discspeed 5 after burning and all disks were 100% good * I do not know I did not test jitter, PIE, PIF I have to worry about not having done this test jitter, pie, pif? I only have one Liteon iHAS122 dvd drive F firmware EL06

3 how many years at the most can I test the disks so I do not lose any files? 1 year is too early?

4 jitter, PIE, PIF is a test to be done soon after burning the disc or after years?
  #39  
  12-04-2016, 06:29 PM
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  #40  
  12-06-2016, 10:42 AM
 
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Why did you delete my question? sorry I thought of new questions but I can not edit the previous question

For Lordsmurf friend: Is that right or wrong?
1) Burned in 6x soft=imgburn drive=liteon iHAS122 F Firmware EL06 DVD-R 16x media=Verbatim AZO 16x MCC RG20 and immediately tested Nero DiscSpeed ​​5> Scandisc> read test surface 100% good (I did not test jitter, pie, pif, po), I saved the disc in black dvd case and I stored it The disk without use, after one or two or 3 years I will test jitter, pie, pif, po to see the situation of the disk, jitter, pie, pif, po can be bad immediately after burning?

2) For preservation and integrity of the files, the jitter, pie, pif, po tests have to be run immediately after burning the dvd-r disk or these tests should be run after one or two or three years after burning? After burning I only tested read test surface using nero discspeed 5 and 100% good

3) If after one or two or three years of burned DVD-R this disc is slightly degraded it is possible to make future forecast of how many years the disc will still keep the files in good condition still stored in the same location and the same conditions? If it will last 15 will arrive in 30 years?

4) In my case I burned the DVD-R 16x Verbatim AZO MCC03RG20 at 6x speed in the IMGBURN drive is liteon iHAS122 F Firmware EL06, you said that 6x is bad for DVD-R 16x so I have to worry about this burning in 6x? The disk passed 100% good on the read test surface of nero discspeed 5 but I have this doubt

Last edited by opticalmediafan; 12-06-2016 at 10:55 AM.
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