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  #1  
  11-03-2016, 12:25 PM
 
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I bought a pin pack of 25 units DVD-R 16x verbatim azo ID: MCC03RG20, my dvd drive is a: ATAPI drive liteon iHAS122 F Firmware EL06

I did the burning of 4 discs in speed 6x using ImgBurn, I did imgburn reading scan (Verify) and no problem found, I did the test of read scan of Nero DiscSpeed ​​5 and 100% good

in Nero DiscSpeed ​​scan of the four discs presented a PIF value variation 48-107 for the same file burned on four discs, it is very strange because it comes with the same file burned on 4 discs this others files values pif variantion 0-4, pie variation 53-201

besides the 4 discs burned with my important files, I have another 3 or 4 to test, it is possible I test a number of discs and have a certainty and a parameter that all 25 discs are identical or similar in quality or I'll have to test jitter , pie, pie etc for all 25 disks to know that the pin is good and will store my files for many years? how does it work? I burned the disc and want them to be 100% read for many years

this 4 discs is reliable and secure for long-term storage files?



Last edited by opticalmediafan; 11-03-2016 at 12:44 PM.
  #2  
  11-03-2016, 01:01 PM
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IMO nothing is good for long term storage, With todays technology I've gotten in the habit of doing this

zipping/raring/7zip (depending on size)
password protect it with a very strong pw (you can get one through strongpasswordgenerator)
then upload to google drive, amazon cloud, burn to dvd
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  #3  
  11-06-2016, 03:41 PM
 
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no doubt my question, please respond
  #4  
  11-11-2016, 05:42 PM
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Nothing last forever make multiple copies. Or back it all up to a portable Hard Drive or Flash drive.
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  #5  
  11-12-2016, 07:52 AM
 
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What is the useful life expectancy in years for store all files burned correctly for future of my VERBATIM DVD-R 16x 4.7GB AZO ID: MCC 03RG20 stored inside black case dvd case inside box temperatures: day 31C, afternoon 32-36C, night 32C humidity 40% -52 % Day, afternoon, night (not rainy season)? Mdisc is the best option under these conditions?
  #6  
  11-12-2016, 04:48 PM
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Well I still have discs in plain sleeves from 2005 that still play and burn fine. I live in ohio temperatures varies up and down constantly. However... I were to do it differently I would have backed everything up on a hard drive , put it in anti static bag , inside of nice seal able plastic tote and leave it a alone until I needed to burn a copy off. Ultimately proper storage and temperatures ( controlled environment) no reason why it wouldn't last for at least 5-10 years , by then it will become obsolete because dvds are being phased out like vhs everything now is stream video or Media players with USB , SD , and HD ) . Just keep in mind no matter what medium you use . You can not predict the exact life expectancy of media or electronic device. I know its not the answer you re looking for but there is no exact answer to this.
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  #7  
  11-12-2016, 05:01 PM
 
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I need to know of an approximate life expectancy of the DVD-R 16x Verbatim AZO MCC 03RG20 for me to make a new copy before the data disappears, I stored inside black case dvd case inside box temperatures: day 31C, afternoon 32-36C, night 32C Humidity 40% -52% Day, afternoon, night (not rainy season), are these conditions bad or good to preserve the disc in the long term?
  #8  
  11-12-2016, 05:23 PM
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That sounds like something LS can answer.
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  #9  
  11-12-2016, 05:26 PM
 
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I await the reply from Lordsmurf
  #10  
  11-12-2016, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cp32 View Post
That sounds like something LS can answer.
Can I? Yes.
Do I want to? No, not really.

I've answered here many times: http://www.digitalFAQ.com/forum/media
This person is known there as 'gamemaniaco'.

If he wants random numbers, here's some:
- 3.14159
- 42
- OICU812
- 1234567890

Nobody can answer his questions. He wants exact math that cannot exist. Based on all knowledge, about all optical media, the likely answer is that it will last as long as VHS (35-65 years). It may be longer, it may be somewhat shorter (but probably not by much).

Environmental conditions pay a huge part. When you live in Brazil (a rain forest), in non-controlled temperatures, all bets are off. Verbatim is the best media. So it has the best chance of surviving a DVD media apocalypse.

32-36C = 89-96 F. That's hot as hell. Ideal media conditions are 80 max, preferably in the 60s-70s with low humidity. I will say this: I used to store CDs in my car (for about 15-20 years), and inside-a-car Texas heat beats Brazil heat. Those discs are fine. Given that DVD is better than CD in some important ways, the burned DVDs should last at least 20, if not more. I'd say 35 is a good estimate.
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  #11  
  11-12-2016, 06:07 PM
 
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1) Thank you friend Lordsmurf for the answer before I asked about the philips media but today I bought the media indicated by you dvd-r 16x verbatim azo id MCC 03RG20
1) I need to clarify these doubts. Lordsmurf for the answer before I asked about the philips media but today I bought the media indicated by you dvd-r 16x verbatim azo id MCC 03RG20

With this verbatim I do not want exact math but only approximate math to make a new backup transfer files on a new disk
I mentioned that my conditions are: morning 31C, afternoon 32 to 36C, night 32C humidity 40% to 52% (no rain station) At times in the rainy months it is cold (28, 29C) and humid
I keep the discs in black case dvd and the cases I keep inside of boxes, in my storage conditions what would be the useful life expectancy in Years that this disk resists before dying? I know that the errors are increasing and the dye degrading I learned from you

doubts in my conditions

2) the expected of life expectancy of 16x dvd-r counted after manufacture or after burning? In dvd-r media virgins stored and sealed dye and reflective layer degrade? I asked why I burned 5 media and there are still 20 virgin media stored on the pin

3) I did the correct to have low jitter, low PIE, low PIF or no? I burned the files in Verbatim DVD-R AZO 16x ID: MCC 03RG20 in 6x speed minimum supported for drive?

4) For long-term DVD-R storage do I need to worry about jitter, PIE, PIF after burning the disc or should I be concerned about the quality of the media and the manufacturer? I burned my disks but I just did the Nero discSpeed Read Test and the result was 100% good, I did the Verify of ImgBurn and errors found 0

5) Verbatim says in 2 pdfs that the dvd-r disc of them has a durability of 60 years and in the other pdf says that it is 100 years at 25 C but I think it is a lie, what is your opinion Lordsmurf? Unfortunately I can not maintain these temperatures because I live in the Brazilian northeast and my storage conditions are the ones I mentioned above


Attached Files
File Type: pdf binarydata_dvd-r-auth-lifetime-pdf_456.pdf (98.8 KB, 19 views)
File Type: pdf DVD-RGen_Lifetime.pdf (65.5 KB, 25 views)
File Type: pdf binarydata_dvd-r-auth-lifetime-pdf_456.pdf (98.8 KB, 15 views)
File Type: pdf DVD-RGen_Lifetime.pdf (65.5 KB, 21 views)
  #12  
  11-14-2016, 08:49 PM
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I have tears rolling down my face 42... Well played Arthur Dent ,well played

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Environmental conditions pay a huge part. When you live in Brazil (a rain forest), in non-controlled temperatures, all bets are off. Verbatim is the best media. So it has the best chance of surviving a DVD media apocalypse..
and I wanted say Optical I was not laughing at you. Just at the Hitchhikers Guide and musical reference he put in there lol ( DVD media apocalypse LS? I didn't think it would come to that )
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  #13  
  11-15-2016, 10:29 AM
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if you are worried about heat conditions then why not back up online to the cloud? there are several companies to pick from and just don't use dvds
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  #14  
  11-15-2016, 04:42 PM
 
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I do not trust servers
I would very much like Lordsmurf to answer all my 5 doubts above
  #15  
  11-15-2016, 08:26 PM
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Repeating yourself is starting to piss me off. Stop it. I can answer you, or clean up your mess, not both. Ask once, then wait for answers. Copy/paste over and over is irritating.

Verbatim is a manufacturer. They're not independent. They don't need to lie, just obfuscate the actual facts with cherry picked best-case data. Every company does it, which is why nobody trusts official company studies for anything (DVD media, medicines, etc).

60-100 probably is best-case.
I find 100 to be mostly bogus, and 60 more honest.

My research has shown 35-65, which would agree with their more realistic 60 number for best-case. That means lesser 35 is possible, especially when not stored at optimum. It may even be worse, but not the stupid 3-5 years nonsense as spouted by IBM. I'd bet at least 10 to 30 (half their reasonable max).

Also use hard drive, SSD/flash, and even online storage, if it's really important stuff.

PIE/PIE/jitter values can show how the disc is aging. If values look odd, copy the content to yet more media.

Test important discs annually.
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  #16  
  11-16-2016, 02:49 AM
 
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Sorry Lordsmurf I did not want to irritate you, I need your help and I learn about optical media with you, sorry, I'll ask only once and wait

1) Do you cite values ​​that the dvd-r verbatim azo disc has a durability of 35-65 years but is your search done based on my storage conditions? You're saying that it has this durability under what storage conditions I'm not talking about conditions 25C-50% RH
I am talking about my conditions of a 16x DVD-R disc Verbatim AZO ID: MCC 03RG20 stored inside dvd case black, case inside box temperature and humidity: morning 31C, afternoon 32C-36C, night 32C humidity 40-56 % In months of rain the temperature is a little lower 28 C, 29 C and high humidity, these my conditions this dvd-r verbatim will have an expectation approximate of how many years? He will die fast?

2) in day I burned 4 DVD-R discs 16x Verbatim AZO MCC 03RG20 and I saved them but did not do the jitter, pie, pif test I did the discspeed Nero 5 read test 100% good, imgburn verify no errors, I have not checked jitter , Pie, pif on the 4 disks represents some risk for data loss?

3) What happens to the other 21 discs of my spindle verbatim azo mcc 03rg20? They are virgin discs but they will degrade the dye and die like the burned discs? Will not I be able to use them after 10 years or more to make new copies?

4) I burned all dvd-r discs 16x verbatim azo mcc 03rg20 at speed 6x (minimum supported by my drive), 6x is a good speed to have little errors?

5) I received an email from Verbatim Taiwan that they say the DVD-R 16x Verbatim AZO MCC 03RG20 has a life expectancy in general, 30 to 50 years depends on storing conditions (you have to keep it in dry environment ...). However, we recommend 5 to 10 years to get back up again, if it is possible. 25C +/- 5, 55 +/- 5 RH%, Media stored in jewel case, not exposed direct sunlight or other UV, no scratches, no corrosive gas in air

Now there are 2 PDfs and a 1 email received, just want to know the truth and how would these useful life expectancy of the disk with my conditions that I mentioned that are unstable and greater than these conditions

Last edited by opticalmediafan; 11-16-2016 at 11:35 AM.
  #17  
  11-16-2016, 12:29 PM
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Optical these are the exact same questions as above? dude...

I think these are realistic expectations especially if you are only using media for trading and not selling by the masses. I d accept this previous post and move on. The way you are coming off. I apologize If I m wrong. You are coming off as profiteer who is panicking over his money maker. Its great you want to learn as we all do for the video Master that is LS lol I cant see anything more he can add to this ? Also, You have to keep in mind there are other unforeseen things going on offline... he cant always answer right away...
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  #18  
  11-16-2016, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cp32 View Post
I apologize If I m wrong. You are coming off as profiteer who is panicking over his money maker.
He's overly cautious, and not a trader at all that I know of. He came here from digitalFAQ.com, which he found from Videohelp and MyCE(cdfreaks). VH/MyCE users chased him away. I think VH banned him. I'm not going to do that, but he starting to get on my nerves.

It's always a new (valid!!!) question among 4-5 repeated ones. It's the repeats that get him in trouble everywhere.

Saying "I don't understand" after an explanation is fine. Even I do that for some things (example: woodworking). But to ask the question again, which comes across as entirely ignoring the first answer, is rude.

He is learning about media. ... I just wish that he'd also learn some patience and tact.

I know cp32 has been on the receiving end of my dress-downs. See, I do it to others, too!

Quote:
Originally Posted by opticalmediafan View Post
I am talking about my conditions of a 16x DVD-R disc Verbatim AZO ID: MCC 03RG20 stored inside dvd case black, case inside box temperature and humidity: morning 31C, afternoon 32C-36C, night 32C humidity 40-56 % In months of rain the temperature is a little lower 28 C, 29 C and high humidity, these my conditions this dvd-r verbatim will have an expectation approximate of how many years? He will die fast?
I'd say 15-30 years is a good estimate. About half the realistic lifetime of 35-65. The difference is your conditions are harsh. Likea GPS, you may need to recalculate this. Re-check a sampling every year. FYI, this is what I do!

Quote:
2) in day I burned 4 DVD-R discs 16x Verbatim AZO MCC 03RG20 and I saved them but did not do the jitter, pie, pif test I did the discspeed Nero 5 read test 100% good, imgburn verify no errors, I have not checked jitter , Pie, pif on the 4 disks represents some risk for data loss?
You can only really know about degradation before loss by testing PIE, PIF and jitter. Once loss happens, there's no need to test with simple surface scan. It's too late. That problem is that most drives no longer support this. Locating a drive for this isn't something I want to help with. You need to do your own research. I prefer the BenQ 1620 and 1640 for DVD testing. That are 10-year drives, you won't find them new.

Quote:
3) What happens to the other 21 discs of my spindle verbatim azo mcc 03rg20? They are virgin discs but they will degrade the dye and die like the burned discs? Will not I be able to use them after 10 years or more to make new copies?
Unburned media ages slower than burned. I've burned PVC discs 10 years after the fact, and the values were still good. Not 100% optimal, but at least 90-95%. PVC was probably the best media ever made, 4x, longer ago discontinued.

Quote:
4) I burned all dvd-r discs 16x verbatim azo mcc 03rg20 at speed 6x (minimum supported by my drive), 6x is a good speed to have little errors?
No. The ideal burning speed is half. So 16x media is 8x or 12x. However, MCC is a bit better than average. Sometimes 4x-6x can yield better results. This is where testing comes into play. Testing for yourself, look at the results, make your judgment call.

Quote:
5) I received an email from Verbatim Taiwan that they say the DVD-R 16x Verbatim AZO MCC 03RG20 has a life expectancy in general, 30 to 50 years depends on storing conditions (you have to keep it in dry environment ...). However, we recommend 5 to 10 years to get back up again, if it is possible. 25C +/- 5, 55 +/- 5 RH%, Media stored in jewel case, not exposed direct sunlight or other UV, no scratches, no corrosive gas in air
Verbatim is useless, and MCC is who you need to check with. They give more realistic figures over email/phone than marketing. Their 30-50 is again simliar to my 35-65. And yours would be 15-30, with them seeming to suggest minimum 5-year testing cycles. I suggest annual.

Quote:
Now there are 2 PDfs and a 1 email received, just want to know the truth and how would these useful life expectancy of the disk with my conditions that I mentioned that are unstable and greater than these conditions
The PDF are marketing documents. Disregard. Again, 15-30 ideal for you, test annually to see values. Remember to record values, so you can see if there are bad shifts or changes from years to year.

^ This time, you asked mostly all-new question. Not all, but mostly.
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  #19  
  11-16-2016, 04:14 PM
 
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Lordsmurf thank you for answering my questions and sorry for my many questions

1 really my conditions are these and I have no way to change them, I thought of putting the average in a ventilated and little humid place but it is hotter and the afternoon the temperature can reach 34-36C, in my room is a Slightly less hot 30 to 32 C but at night the humidity is 65-67%, so the question is whether it is better or less high humidity or high temperature?, Are not included rainy seasons

2 is this estimate that you estimated from 35-65 years and is the same estimate of the verbatim dvd-r of 60 years of useful life is an estimate only at 25C 50% RH? Is it a real estimate under these storage conditions? Is that why my different conditions are not included in this estimate?

3 my drive is a liteon iHAS122 F firmware EL06 it has scan jitter, pie, pif, i just tested a burned media from my 25 dvd-r verbatim azo pin, the 1 media test serves as parameter to know that all Are other media looking good or bad? The other 4 burned media I did read test nero discspeed 5 100% good, in the 4 medias i test verify imgburn no errors found, I should worry about jitter, pie, pif of other burned media that I have not tested?

4 These media dvd-r verbatim virgins stops can i use them in the future 15 years or more? Or at that time the azo dye and reflective layer will be degraded and bad?

5 I burned the 4 discs dvd-r 16x verbatim azo in 6x with imgburn drive is liteon iHAS122 F firmware EL06, this 6x speed burn is bad and I will have to make new burnings? I thought the lowest speed possible was the best, 6x causes many errors and influences the reduction of the useful life expectancy of the disk? A burned 8x or 12x disc will last longer than a burned 6x disc?

6 I'm going to contact MCC but I've already emailed them and they do not respond, testing every 5 years is a long time and the disc can fail in this period? Is it really okay to try it once a year even at the risk of scratching the disc?

7 The test jitter, foot, pif with my drive and media burned at 6x when I burned I did not test these errors I only tested the read test of the speed nerodisc 5 and the verify option of imgburn and they were 100% good, I Kept the disks but the disks can be with bad jitter, foot, pif and 15-30 years of expectation may be lower?

8 The useful life of a burned disc is counted from the date of burning or from the date of manufacture of the discs and how long did it remain in the store?

Last edited by opticalmediafan; 11-18-2016 at 01:13 PM.
  #20  
  11-16-2016, 11:02 PM
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Oh yes I have On more than one occasion Ive been publicly spanked by the smurf

When I started to learn about dvd menus .....It was not pretty

Let me tell you. What I learned from here Got me through many course's at college with an B ( no A I was sick a few times and I m old lol) due to his , mark, philip and Bobby cannon mentoring . The video end definitely LS Mark and Phil.
Menus - All of the above .
So many good people to learn from here. When you re old you get a little case of the greenies because they figure it out before you do
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